Mickey Gloss on Politics

What was up with Whores cancelling their show at the Rattler last night? Having to deal with that on the same day as finding out about the passing of Haim was... tough, to say the least. Emma and I had to go and drink in Hyde Park like a couple of homeless castaways to deal with the emotions and believe me, it wasn't as glamorous and exciting as it sounds.


Anyway, I know you're all hungry for something relevant and mentally stimulating. I know you don't care about me and my inner turmoil, my increasing dependence on alcohol or decreasing sense of shame. And that's okay, I'm used to it. I'M FINE. Really. So to soothe your aforementioned existential yearn, here's my interview with Mickey Gloss' arresting front man, Daniel. We met at the Falconer on Oxford Street and talked politics. Have you been there before? It's like, waistcoat central. I kept asking stupid questions, Daniel made a salient point and then I asked another stupid question because I was blinded by all of the natty little waistcoats passing me by.

And Mickey Gloss' music is not unlike a natty little waistcoat (see what I did there?). It's timeless, with overtones of old school cool and a little bit of the blues. It's dangerous, but not so much that it turns you off entirely. So there you go, probably the dumbest musical analogy you'll ever read but it's all I've got right now.

But enough of that. Voilá ; l'interview !

Can't Sleep: What do you think the role of music is in politics? Do you think it's important?

Daniel: Yea, I think so. I think music can lead to political change, it can be a way of giving people political ideas. We (Mickey Gloss) always look in our playing to educate people about things but maybe not so much in a black and white way, because I think if you start being a preacher people kind of don't like that. I don't like that. I know people who like to be told what to do, but if you tell someone a story, or about the place where you come from, there's all these politics which involve themselves in that. I mean in the songs that I write, I kind of try to tell a story, set up places, background and stuff and there's politics in that but it's never black and white. I think music can be political, and I think the role of music in politics is valid, just as one form of expression.

CS: So do you think politics is inescapable in society?

D: Yea, I think so. Because if you think about music; it's either about sex, religion or politics and there's politics in sex, there's politics in religion, there's politics in someone telling a story. Even if you're writing about someone who broke your heart, there's politics in that. You know, you're just telling your side of the story.

CS: Do you think that politics has the ability to get us out of the mess that we're in?

D: I don't think so. I don't really think that change is the way... because the problem with politics is people. It's a great theory and stuff, but as soon as people get involved in it and try to make a decision... there's so many other factors that involve themselves in politics. There's so many different facets. Money, and you know...

CS: So you think politics is what got us into this mess, it won't get us out of it?

D: I think even if we didn't have politicians, (collapsing economies, wars etc.) would still be around, it would just be in a different way. There's always going to be good and bad in the world. People seem to love power, they just crave it.

CS: Is it human nature to just be like, “I'm the leader, you guys are the followers. This is how I'm going to run the world.”?

D: I think so. For some people. There's some people who are totally against that. But either way, if you're saying “political change” and all that, what's the alternative to a democracy? Even if you try Marxism, it's still a dictatorship. Everyone talks about these Marxist regimes, but the notion of Marxism where you've got people who all get paid the same for doing different jobs, you wouldn't have people who were musicians, you wouldn't have that... Like I'd want to say, “Oh, I'm a musician.” Who's going to say, “Hey, I'm a garbage man”, you know what I mean?

CS: Yea. It's like, every time somebody says, “I'm an artist” or “I'm a musician” or “I'm a poet”, people are always like, “Yea, but what do you do for money?” And they probably work full time at Coles or in an office or something.

D: Exactly. When people ask you what you do, they don't ask you what you actually do during the day, they want to know if you're a student, where you work, you know. All those things.

CS: What do you think, idealistically, politics' goal should be?

D: To bring people together and to help people. If we're talking about political change, that's what it should be about.

CS: Do you think a country's political system is really a reflection of the people who live in it?

D: It's a reflection of its history. If Captain Cook hadn't come to Australia when he did, then we wouldn't have the political structure that we have now, know what I mean?

CS: So if it's a reflection of country's history, where do you think it manifests itself? In the way people interacts with each other?

D: There's politics in everything. There's politics in this conversation. You know, you're the person who's recording this, later on you're going to critique what I say and that'll be based on insights that you have following the conversation. The world's never arbitrary, so to me politics is all just about vested interests. People have vested interests... so, we're a very Christian country now because that's where we came from but if you go over to countries with an Islamic state, they have totally different laws, totally different politics and totally different views on the world. And that's because of their vested interests.

CS: What do you think about the separation of church and state?

D: It doesn't exist. It's like the separation of man from emotions, it doesn't exist. We've got a huge Anglo-Saxon population in this country and I think it's (most represented) in the hegemonic discourse, and anything outside of that is a minority group. I just see that as the reality, I don't think it's a good thing, it's not something I'm happy about.

CS: Do you think religion should be separate from politics?

D: I think it should, idealistically. But it never is. We're only people, the way we've been brought up, whatever morals we've been taught, whatever culture we come from, totally influences our political views.

CS: What about money? Do you think money should be kept separate from politics or is it like religion, that it's just always going to be there?

D: It's always going to be there, but it shouldn't. Why would a company give money to whatever party is involved and then say that they expect that party to be totally arbitrary and not swing judgments in their favour?

CS: And what about the involvement of art? Do you think politics and art should stay away from each other?

D: No, I'm totally a fan of Dadaism and things like that. I think art's sort of turning into this thing where it's just all about the aesthetic, what something looks like, how it feels and stuff like like that. To me that's cool, that's fine, but you can you see how that's sort of a metaphor for the pop world where things are just pretty and shiny but they've got no substance to 'em. They don't say anything. I spend ages writing lyrics that to me reflect... I don't know, I try and have, like, three ideas in every line so it's got this kind substance about it. I think lyrically, a lot of bands don't have very much substance. But art to me, really is not about the aesthetic. If you're talking about art art, you look at it, and you either like it or you don't. You don't know why. You might want to know why, and you can spend your whole life trying to figure out this piece of work, but really...

CS: But you could say the same thing about politics, especially what's happening in America with Barack Obama, it's just about image. People fell in love with his image.

D: But who were you going to vote for if you didn't vote for him? McCain? Or Ron Paul?

CS: But again that's all about image. You know, McCain had this whole “I'm old, I'm a war veteran” thing going on...

D: And the thing about that is that Obama did win, but it wasn't a landslide. It was still pretty close in some states. He won a lot of seats, but he won by a pretty narrow margin which is scary, considering Sarah Palin and all of them. See, I don't see a difference between John Howard and Kevin Rudd. They're exactly the same, it's just a different image. The closest thing we've ever gotten to a left wing politician in Australia is Gough Whitlam. And he got fired. At the end of the day, people just worry about money, and their families and their home loans, stuff like that. That's what it seems to all boil down to. Social change, and things like that... it seems like people don't have the time or the energy to invest into things like that. Like, I live in Western Sydney, I teach in areas like Mt. Druitt and the way those kids live is ridiculous. And that's all political, people turn a blind eye to it. They build these low socio-economic housing estates in the middle of nowhere, people can't get public transport to actually go anywhere and then they expect them to get jobs? It's very hard.

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Edit: Maybe should have mentioned this earlier, but Daniel recently moved to London so fans in the southern hemisphere probably won't be able to see Mickey Gloss play live any time soon. I know, it blows. It blows hard.

Lost Boy

Dude. Bumming.

The Holy Soul Ain't Nothin Ta Fuck Wit

Seeing as the Holy Soul killed it in their support slot with the Drones on Friday night, I figure now is as good a time as any to put up our interview with them about the future. This one's taken from the same issue as Royal Headache & Straight Arrows (obvs), the one which unfortunately made us all go, 'Fuck this, I need that money to put electricity in my house and meth stains on my teeth. What's the deal with this "blogging" thing I've been hearing so much about? That's free, right?'

Leia and I met up with Sam and - a bit later - Jon, at Cafe Giulia in Chippendale and had what turned out to be a very interesting discussion about what was coming for the human race/the music industry which then evolved into a very interesting discussion about parasites and robots, for some reason. But because I'm lazier than Jack Lang and Frederic Mitterand combined (there, I said it), the entire thing didn't get transcribed. So this is just the stuff about the future. Your welcome.

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Can't Sleep: What do you think the future's looking like at the moment? Are you optimistic about it?

Sam: Yea, every time I get asked this sort of thing I don't feel like I'm really qualified to know what I'm talking about but I know that in the last few weeks, going to (GoodGod Small Club), I saw Royal Headache the other night, which was incredible, I saw Ghosts of Television doing their album launch... So them, and people like Knitted Abyss, I've seen a lot of things in the recent past that've been really encouraging, people who are just really switched on with really open ears. People like Ghosts of Television, I guess they have that, without kind of 'pigeon holing' it, that post-punk kind of thing going on, which is great but I know just from hanging out with those guys, I think they all went to see Fleetwood Mac the other day and they're all really into hip hop and other stuff. I think a lot of people are kind of blurring the lines in terms of taste, like what you should or shouldn't be into, you know...

A lot of people are avoiding the typical sort of 'pub circuit', there's a lot of warehouse things, gallery things. It's pretty hands on, it doesn't seem to be a snooty kind of thing. You know, kids with long necks, and they're all really young, which is pretty cool.

CS: So when the Holy Soul is making music do you look to the future for inspiration, or do you tend to look backwards?

S: We don't really discuss it or think about it a whole lot. I guess when we first started people were like, “Oh, you're one of those ‘Nuggets’ kind of bands”, and I think we kind of bristled at that. Then later on, people were like, “Oh, you're one of those Beasts of Bourbon/Scientists kind of bands”, and when we did our most recent record I think we were keen to do something that didn’t have a reductive angle on it. In terms of looking to the past, I suppose it's inevitable to draw on music you like but there's nothing really specific I could point to other than saying that we try to play to our strengths and avoid our weaknesses. I guess we just try to be free to fuck around with whatever ideas come up.

CS: What do you think the future of music will be? With all the new technology we have, do you think it'll get better?

S: There seems to be this perception of a strict, linear development of rock music, you know, “This happened in the 60s, this happened in the 70s, 80s, 90s” and now it just seems so scattered and it's really hard to say what the fuck's going on. Which I kind of like. I guess everybody says people aren't going to buy records any more, and I'm not really up on that buying music from iTunes and all of that, which is great, but... it's not really something that applies to a band like us. Maybe to some degree we just have an older audience, who are a little set in their ways. As ever, big music fans are right in to vinyl. I guess vinyl's interactive as well, you know instead of having an iPod, with vinyl you have to get up at least every 23 minutes and flip it over. I like what Ghosts of Television have done with that record, they put out about 150 or 130 copies on vinyl but you can download it for free if you want. And it's a really sexy looking record.

CS: Do you think we'll ever have our science fiction future with the flying cars and robot armies, all of the stuff that's in the movies?

S: It sounds good, doesn't it? A few years ago we played in Europe with Mudhoney, and every night they played this song called 'Where's the Future?',and it's all about, where is this proper future with the flying cars and stuff like that? “Where is this future that was promised us? I'm sick to death of this one. I wanna visit my family on mars, I wanna ride with my personal jet pack”. It’s a stab at the kind of future that Bush era U.S.A. was dishing up at the time. There was this shop next to my house that popped up a while ago, it had astronaut food in it. I think it was mostly for campers, and you get powdered ice cream. It tasted horrible, we're not quite there with the sci fi food.

CS: So again with the technology thing, do you think it's helping creativity or hindering it?

S: I don’t know but I've got nothing against auto tune or synths or whatever, we've never personally used em... we did once, just as joke in the studio, put auto tune on a vocal just for our own amusement. Didn't really sound good. Generally, we've recorded on analog equipment, we've done things on cassette and reel-to-reel but we're not ideologically like, “This is what you've gotta do.” We don't feel like we're part of any analog movement or anything. I think getting things done by any means necessary is fine, we mix digitally, we're not really hung up on being a “purist”, sometimes there's a sort of naff mystique over bands who say “Oh, we only ever record to cassette”. A lot of that stuff is cool but we don't really buy into (it) as a movement.

CS: One thing that really concerns me is, and I guess it's symptomatic of iTunes and iPods and all of that, bands and a lot of the big hip hop producers don't make proper albums any more, it's all about singles. So do you think in the future, it'll be the death of the album? There won't be the big album bands around?

S: There has been a lot of talk around that lately, I don't really see it coming into effect very much. A lot of records that've come out in the last couple of years, they always say it's going to be the last “ALBUM” to come out. We grew up with the format, have an affection for it, we like the kind of 39 minute album, we're fine with that. So for us, it's hard to imagine us not really working outside of that, I mean it's totally artificial format but so is pop music. Maybe some hip hop could benefit from a more “single song” environment, even if there are some really great long playing hip hop records. But there's that Snoop Dogg record that come out a little while ago, and it's got that amazing single on it, 'Drop It Like It's Hot', it's incredible, but the record is absolute pants, it's a piece of shit. Like in the 60s, you'd have the Beatles and the Stones answering each other with singles, I really like how hip hop seems to have that thing going on. There’s a one upmanship going on, and that’s not so common in rock singles.

CS: So do you think humans have an ability to predict the future? In any way, shape or form? Do you think Orwell and Huxley are on the right track?

(They) seem to be, don't they? There's a lot of eerie parallels with what those guys were saying and I noticed the other day, Speaking of Huxley, you can learn Esperanto in Petersham. I saw this little sign, “Inquire within, Esperanto lessons.”

CS: Do you think, any time in the future, we'll be able to eliminate some of the problems we're having now, or is it just human nature to be self destructive?

S: I don't know...I was in the States right before the election and people were pretty psyched about it. You know that guys who did the Boondocks, if you've ever seen that show, the cartoon strip, Aaron McGruder? He described himself as “cautiously pessimistic” about the whole Obama thing. I guess I feel the same way, but what the fuck would I know?

(Jon arrives)

CS: In terms of social interaction, do you think we'll just end up being more and more aligned on social networking sites like Facebook?

Jon: I reckon we already are.

CS: Do you think it'll get any worse?

J: Once everyone has an iPhone, they let it run everywhere they're going.

S: What do you think about the death of the album, Jon? They were asking about that before.

J: Yea, I don't think it will die... I'm curious to know what the next new instrument will be. I don't think we've had a new instrument this decade

S: The Keytar is getting old now.

J: Maybe you could claim that Auto Tune is this decade's new instrument... I don't know, it's kind of disappointing. Like, we're doing this radio show and one of the things it said was to wrap up the last decade of new music. And we're just kind of looking at it going, “Eh...”, there's not really much good new stuff going around.

CS: Yea, that's what I'm wondering. If there's going to be any new formation of a genre, if anything's going to be fused together, or is it just going to be recycled and re appropriated with a few new influences, or if it's going to be something really dramatic. I can't think of anything.

J: I think, if you look back, there seems to be an instrument that creates the new music.

S: I guess hip hop is one of the only real new forms of music to come up in our lifetime.

J: There's been a lot of (new music) in our lifetime. But a lot of it's not popular music. Even within that electronic music, there's lots of new forms of music which is really unique, like acid house and jungle music. And I guess in this decade we have dub step, but I don't think that's really mind-blowingly unique.

Happy Friday!

Yea! Gwar! So the Laurels played a free show at the Oxford Art Factory last night. Unfortunately I couldn't be there due to work commitments (gay) but fortunately I was able to whip my colleague, Leia, into submission and thus persuade her to turn off the Doors, put down the reefer and go outside to do something productive. Thank God I did because I was this close to calling the good people at A&R and getting her white slacker ass on an episode of Intervention. But I digress; here's what she came up with. Thanks Leia!

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Ever since I was persuaded last year to attend one of their gigs at the late and beloved Hopetoun Hotel, I've been hooked on The Laurels. This psychedelic/shoegaze band are yet to disappoint, with their performance at the Oxford Art Factory as a support act for Mother & Son as impressive as ever. Opening with a personal favourite, 'Black Cathedral', they had a promising start. If you're a fan of psychedelic trips and distortion-heavy tracks, these guys are a must-see. Luke O'Farrell's powerful stage presence and Piers' entrancing vocals created their signature hazy vibe and made the already tight performance more worthwhile to watch. The remainder of their performance was solid, playing known tracks such as 'Glacier' and 'Soul Arising', proving once again that they are a must-see band. It's not just me who thinks so, either. The word is spreading. Having already supported acts such as Tame Impala and A Place To Bury Strangers, these guys are going places. So if you see them playing near you, drop everything and go see them!

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If, like Leia, you spend most of your time in a smoky haze, quietly losing your mind to the dulcet tones of Jim Morrison and watching repeat after repeat of Full House, you may not have realised that the weekend is rapidly approaching. And that (unsurprisingly, really) is to your detriment, you commie sonofabitch, because over the next couple of days there's approximately one metric shitload of things to do in this fair city. Tonight, if you weren't quick enough to get tickets to see The Drones there's the Hipster Doofus Party in Erskineville, the Heaps Decent fundraiser at GoodGood Small Club and I have it on good authority that there's a drag race happening somewhere in Bondi? Like, drag queens in a running race. Also, this and this.

Royal Headache on The Future

HUZZAH! As you've probably already heard, Royal Headache finally gave birth to seven inches of vinyl loveliness last week. They named it Eloise and it's been released on the general public by R.I.P Society . There are already unanimously positive reviews on Mess + Noise, Pitchfork and Last.fm but I'd like to add my two cents now by saying that I think they're the balls (See, that's them in the header picture up there. See? Right next to Helen Adam? That's how great I think they are). Admittedly, I haven't heard the whole thing yet but what I have heard makes me want to give them all my money. Then quit my job, drop out of school and throw a big pool party or something.



So, to mark the occasion, here's my interview with them on the future. Well, more of a brief web exchange about the future? We emailed them some questions on their thoughts and feelings about what's in store and Joe was kind enough to shoot back some answers. But insightful nonetheless, and a pleasure to read. Coincidentally enough, Eloise was recorded by Owen from Straight Arrows who I also interviewed for the same issue. I know! Crazy!

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Can't Sleep: What do you guys think the future holds for the human race?

Joe: There is no future for the human race, the only survivors will be the uv race, no future will hold onto us.

CS: What do you think it holds for the future of music?

J: That's heavy, like what does the future hold for the future of music? What will be the future of music in the future??? Ask Kanye West man, we don't even use auto-tune or synths.

CS: Do you guys believe we're heading in the right direction, with regard to the environment, foreign & at home social policy etc.? Why/Why not?

J: My only social policy is there better be booze, I'm nervous as shit in conversation at home or with foreigners.

CS: Is the idea of the future a source of inspiration for you guys as musicians? Or do you prefer to look at historic/past events?

J: Maybe in the future 'the future' will be a source of inspiration for us. I'd like to do a space album. Like guitars that sound like lasers. And we'd sing about cosmic shit you know like Sun Ra and Eddie Gale did, real jive talk but instead of universal consciousness we'd be about like space boobs. Like these giant boobs where the nipples are black holes and you can't help but be sucked into em, but in the end they'll tear you to pieces.

CS: Should artists have more of a say in the future direction of humanity? Do you guys think artists/musicians already have enough input with regard to our future, or is it not enough? Why/Why not?

J: 100% completely no way should artists have any say in the future direction of humanity, artists are fuckin idiots. Can you imagine Nick Cave running the planet??? I dunno why people look to "artists" or "musicians" as some great source of wisdom, I barely know 3 guitar chords do you think i know what is best for 7 billion people? Grinspoon made another album, they definitely have no idea about what is best for humanity.

CS: Do you think humans still have a lot to learn about themselves in the future? Or do we already know too much? Can you think of any examples?

J: Unless that documentary I saw about Keanu Reeves' future was all made up I'm pretty sure we don't have to learn anything in the future, we just upload a disc into our brains and we just know man.

CS: Do you think that humans have a habit of idealising the future? Why/Why not?

J: I listen to punk rock, all i hear is shitty futures. No values, no ideals.

CS: What do you guys think should be our top priority when planning for the future? Preserving the arts and education? The environment? Democracy?

J: Fuck that, our number one priority should be making sure How I Met Your Mother never gets taken off the air. Like NEVER. There'll be about 40 years where it'll be pretty unfunny, but wait 'til they get dementia and can't contain their bowels and whatever.

CS: Are humans, as a group, any good at predicting the future? How do you think this relates to art?

J: My sister actually predicted the future once, like in a dream. It was fuckin crazy. She had this dream when she was in like the 6th grade, a dude in a black trench-coat came walking through this gate in our backyard and walked around our house and then my sister ran inside and told mum and made her go out and see what he was doing and the trench-coat dude stabbed my mum a buncha times and it was hectic, real fucked up. So she told mum the next day and it was like oh yeah nightmare. Then like 2 weeks later me and my sister were playing in our front yard and we saw this dude walk in through the back gate in a black trench-coat and we shit ourselves, ran inside the house and told mum, she freaked out and we locked all the doors and shit then watched from the window, he just walked out through our front gate and walked down the street. we lived on this property that backed onto a cane farm in north Queensland though so it was kinda weird. I'm not making this up. but she's the only person in my family who has predicted the future, I'd say as a group we're pretty poor at predicting the future. Oh wait my mum used to read tarot cards, she did mine when i was in 10th grade and basically knew everything about my life and it all involved girls which was awkward so she never read mine again. And we used to use a ouija board like at least once a month as a family. it was creepy as shit, i used to ask if i would ever play in the NBA and it would always say no.

CS: How much do you think humanity's past mistakes impact on our future? Can there ever be such a thing as a 'clean slate'?

J: The future is never gonna forgive kiss for kiss symphony. Some shit just doesn't wash out.

Anna Baccarini Is The New Edie Sedgwick, Still Hates Vampire Movies.

(sauce)

This is pretty cool, no? Underbelly Arts put out a call today for submissions from artists for a ten day workshop and public exhibition. I know they used to put stuff on at Carriage Works, but apparently they're moving so the new venue will be up on the website soon. The deadline for submissions is the 19th of March.


In other week-old news that I've only just heard about, the Seabellies have announced a co-headlining national tour with Parades. According to Mess + Noise, "the playing order of each band will not be decided until the evening of the show", which could be confusing to some people seeing as they're pretty much the same band and everything. But, you know, equally decent.

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Also, all hail the Drones who are set to play what will most likely be a fucking awesome show with the Holy Soul on Friday night at the Annandale (my interview with the Holy Soul will be up here soon). Can I get a 'Hell Yea'?

Welcome Wagon + Whipped on Worship

We made it! In the interest of saving time and money (mostly money), Can't Sleep is now a purely online publication. And we couldn't be more chuffed.

To celebrate, here's my previously unpublished interview with the enigmatic force that is Whipped Cream Chargers. I met up with them at their pad in Hibernian House to talk about religion and worship and can I say, as an interviewer, I couldn't have asked for a more eloquent, well read, polite bunch of gentlemen. Their music ain't too shabby either, a perfect combination of rockabilly goodness seasoned with a measured dose of bluesy psychedelia. You can experience it (if you haven't already) via their myspace and/or this video. After you read the ensuing interview, of course. Enjoy!

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CS: Do you think song writing is an act of worship?

Lucas: Well, we have this one song called 'Fifty Dollar Bill', which is about this guy who refuses to spend more than fifty dollars on his prostitutes. We kind of worship that guy.

Louis: He's kind of a recurring character in all of our songs, even if we just touch on him slightly. There's this one song called 'Lotus Rose', it's sort of a really sad, sombre song about Fifty Dollar Bill and this Vietnamese prostitute that he falls in love with. And he can't get away from her, because he loves her, but he still won't pay more than fifty dollars for her, and…
(to Lucas) did she die?

Lucas: I think he killed her.

Louis: I think he kills her because he only has fifty dollars, and she would demand more so he was like, 'Well, if I can't have you no one can.' And he shoots her, 'cause he's a cowboy.

Lucas: It's a tragedy.

CS: He sounds like a reasonable man.

Felix: We have some songs with biblical references, slightly. Well, I mean Jesus Hound...

Louis: That's about an actual dog called Jesus, though.

Lucas: A friend of ours has a dog called Jesus, and I had a rather mystical experience with this dog. At the first house we were rehearsing at, he was staying with us and he would always come in and bite all the leads and pull them out and ruin everything. And we'd be like, “Jesus! Fuck! Oh my lord, Jesus!” So we decided to write a song about it.

Louis: He was huge fucking dog, a pig hunting dog. And he had scars all over him from hunting these pigs. But he got really docile living with Lucas.
Lucas: I really like the Rolling Stones and they've got heaps of worship in their music, the darker side of things... I just read this essay at the start of [Nick Cave's] lyrics book and it's all about how the love song is trying to grab on to God, trying to flesh out God through the lyrics and whatever's going on. I personally only sometimes find that in Nick Cave but it's a pretty cool concept.

CS: What do you think, I mean there's a lot of talk about how God doesn't exist in the 21^st century, what do you think we've replace God with?

Lucas: Money.

Louis: Starbucks.

Felix: Well, it seems as if society itself has replaced [God] with all sorts of false idols, which the bible actually implies, but it's actually up to the individual rather than to rely on a set religion... I still think it's important, to have a slight connection to [religion] but it's about people sourcing it out for themselves at this time. But, religion has definitely killed the idea of God, I think.

Lucas: I just think spirituality is a really important part of life. I used to be a really intense atheist, existentialist, I mainly just hated the organised bit… since then I’ve started realising that I didn't have to follow a religion in order to be spiritual, I don't have to read any particular book in order to be spiritual, it made my life better. There's just heaps of people who clothe spirituality under their particular religion and then say, “You need to pay for this...” Like; me and Jeff, the drummer, went to this Scientology meeting once just to see what it was like. And the whole thing was like, “You can join us, and we'll save you, but it's gonna cost ya! We've got 260 books you've gotta buy and read in order to be saved!”

CS: What do you think about that, the overlap of money and religion?

Max: Money and religion are intrinsically linked.

Felix: I mean, there was the idea of 'Absolution' back in England with Chaucer, who would describe it in the Canterbury Tales, with the pardoner who you'd pay money to and then go to heaven... It's sort of bullshit, actually.

Louis: If there was a heaven, and you could get pardoned, I'd be pretty happy with that.

CS: Going back a little bit, [to Felix] you mentioned that you think religion killed God. How do you think that is?

Felix: I think it's just a really strict doctrine, I mean it helps to an extent for plebeians to kind of grasp the idea of living a good life through religion but the problem is that when people become 100% religious with no spirituality, living by a set of rules and to an extent it actually closes people's eyes to the actual similarities between all religions and the recurring consistencies. Like, I was speaking to this particular Hillsong woman before I moved out from my old house and she was saying, “Oh, you know that Jesus is the only way to God. And you will only find God through Jesus” and I said, “I think that you can find God through anything, whether it be mathematics, music, meditation. Or even through different [Gods] say, Allah or Krishna.” And she was just like, “No no no no no no, that's not it, that's not it.” And so, she was an example of a fully religious person with absolutely no spirituality.

Louis: It's like a blockade. It's like people are putting a blockade on whatever this higher thing is, and whatever path you take to get to this, it's like these people – extreme religions and Christian scientists – those people just keep trying to block the average person, so you have to try and weasel your way in. And exactly what those people are saying is “God.”

Felix: And that God, I think it's just love. So to have a non-inclusive sort of clan where it doesn't actually encourage love for other religions, other people, trying to find love, which works as God at the same time, it seems almost flimsy.

Lucas: Well, I was just reading this thing; Crowley and Nietzsche both say that you can't shut out all the negative in the world, it's just as much a part of everything as the positive. And these religions are just deciding what's positive and saying, “You have to live like that.” And so they're kind of raping you a bit; you just have to enjoy everything that's provided for you by the universe. Whatever you want to call it - God, Allah or whatever - it's all been provided. You can't just shut the devil out and say that that's not part of you.

Max: It's yins and yangs.

Felix: It's all part of it, and religion's just giving you these rules that you can't live by. And that's why they say everyone's a sinner, and that you must follow through with these rules in order not to be.

Lucas: And pay the money.

Felix: Yea, and pay the money. It's like, no one's a sinner. We're all born here and we're all meant to do what we do. Some of the most evil misadventures have been the funnest ones. And that's an interesting point too. I was reading, I think it was in an Eckhardt Tolle book, that you have the idea of everyone being born into sin, that it's recurrent within the Buddhist philosophy. And you wouldn't think that Buddhism has “sin” but sin itself is actually an archery term where it doesn't mean to actively work against hitting the bull's eye, it just means when you take a shot and get it slightly off, that's a “sin”, instead of a bull's eye. So it doesn't mean that a sin is working against God, it's really just to not quite get the precise point of what it's meant to be.

CS: So do you think religion is just inherently paradoxical? That you can't win?

Lucas: I think it's designed so you can't win. Because obviously people in the higher levels in religion, say the pope and all of that, they would understand the deep significance of different ideas that the common man could grasp, but if you subject people to these impossible ideals that they spend all their time trying to live up to, and then say that they're evil for not being able to follow through with them, you're kind of putting them in this dead end. They all sin as well, they all have sinful thoughts, and I'm sure they realise the beauty of those sinful thoughts. It's just a dead end that they put people in because it really stops people from having the power to explore their own spirituality.

CS: Do you think most religions are reflective of human nature?

Lucas: I think they're reflective of a nature that's been pushed on to us. Like, there were all these really naturalistic pagan religions which had all of this stuff built into it that wasn't so much about sin, but more about the tragedy and comedy of life. About how everything just keeps playing itself out over and over again and is beautiful as is...

Max: But if you're talking about human nature, I think religion is sort of reflective of it. In the sense that people always strive for security and comfort, religion can offer security and comfort to some people.

Lucas: But to me, I think that's just in our current society.

Max: Well it is in our society but I think, you know, if you just look at even primitive animals, there are still fundamental things that they have, they have shelter and security and food -

Lucas: But they don't strive to get beyond the basic things like, say, the alpha male fighting the guy wanting to be the alpha male, they don't strive to be selfless and to therefore lose that thing that makes them become the one who can breed and have the most children. They don't strive against their natural functions in their society which have been instinctually built into them, you know? I mean, they don't look for security like we do, by allowing others to be their superiors. Maybe religions do reflect human nature at the moment, but I just think human nature is a really shit band at the moment and could be changed for the better with a few distortion pedals and a new haircut.

CS: Do you think everybody has their own version of God? Like, you guys have music, other people have drugs...

Felix: Oh yea, there's heaps of Gods. Yea, definitely. But the thing people don't seem to realise is, although our paths are completely different essentially it is the same plateau which we're all trying to get to. And that we could be sitting on.

Max: Well, if you think of God as a feeling then there's no particular plateau, it's just coursing through, constantly.

Lucas: Well, technically, we live in this field of infinite light, right? And everything that happens to us is made up of this light in different forms. And I had this dream once that I was in this massive spiral staircase and all around it were stained glass windows. And each one had a picture and people were just standing there, staring at these pictures of stained glass windows and that was their whole life. And I stood in front of mine, and I kicked out a pane of glass and this infinite, brilliant light came out of it. So everyone's just worshipping that light in their different forms... you can worship your muscles, you can worship television or whatever, but in the end it's all made up of the same stuff. You can get caught up in forms, and forget that its really a lot more complex and beautiful than that.

CS: How would you define a false idol, then?

Lucas: Anything, like, if I praise my guitar. I should really be praising what the guitar's made up of and what the guitar's capable of.

Louis: I would say a false idol would be a transient material thing. Something that's not a feeling, or something that's not the spirit. Or feeling a feeling that you know is fake, like jealousy or regret. There is definitely something higher than that beyond the material thing.
Jeff: Praise Xenu!

Sebastian: All hail Marduk!